| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MguyX |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 23:33:22
There goes his "Guns and Ammo" cover shoot (oh, what bad timing!).
On the one hand, I'm glad to see him develop the personal strength I wish he'd had all along to stop letting others make him act ashamed of himself. On the other hand, it seemed he was "Livin La Vida Loca" anyway, so "Guns and Ammo" shouldn't be surprised. 
On yet someone else's hand, I wish he'd come out a long time ago and not distracted all of those eligible young women back then! 
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Airbolt |
Posted - 04/04/2010 : 13:19:50
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
There goes his "Guns and Ammo" cover shoot (oh, what bad timing!).
Most of the Village people were straight. Wnat a crazy mixed up world we live in. |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 17:21:01
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
C.L., I think you are falling into a common liberal straight trap. You think there shouldn't be any problem and see that things are much better than they were, so you think that there aren't really any significant problems nowadays. How many gay couples do you see hand in hand in Jerusalem (or any other big city, let alone small towns)? Not a whole lot, I bet.
Hm... yeah, I probably am. But like I said, I'm an idealist, and my idealism sometimes gets in the way of my seeing reality sometimes. But as for gays in Jerusalem walking hand in hand - not many. However, if you wander around Tel Aviv, on the other hand, you'll see lots and lots. This is mostly because Jerusalem has such a large conservative religious population, where Tel Aviv is more secular and therefore more tolerant of the gay community. That doesn't mean there isn't a sizable gay community in Jerusalem.
But you know, for a country that's just about to turn only 62 years old, we're not doing too badly!
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
I should point out that I think I have fallen into an equivalent trap regarding racism at times. Most people I know show no overt signs of racism, so it is not easy to be objective about how pervasive low-level racism is in the country. (None of us can be ignorant about its rarer high-level manifestations.)
I hear you on this, and I'm sure that while we hate to admit it, we all fall into this trap on occasion.
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| Sean |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 12:12:59
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Gaahl is another singer who came out of the closet recently.
Now that's much more interesting than Ricky Martin.
I was rather surprised when he came out. He doesn't exactly conform to the stereotype of a gay musician/performer. (See photos from Krak�w, 2004 halfway down. Or a youtube clip from the same show. WARNING! Naked crucifixions, sheep heads, blood, inverted crosses and pentagrams etc.)
And yeah, much more interesting than Ricky Martin. |
| Salopian |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 09:58:00
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
[Justin Bieber] is probably too young to even know if he's gay or not.
At sixteen?! You reckon?
quote:
Does it make a difference today that Neil Patrick Harris is gay? No.
He's not exactly a matinee idol, though, is he? How many (out) gay leading men are there in Hollywood? Actual leading men, not supporting actors.
quote:
If we had known that when he was playing Doogie Houser, would it have made him less cute? No.
I don't know about 'cuteness' but absolutely no way would that series have continued with any success at that time and with him at that age. (I assume he was older than the character, but he was still pretty young.) There would have been total uproar.
C.L., I think you are falling into a common liberal straight trap. You think there shouldn't be any problem and see that things are much better than they were, so you think that there aren't really any significant problems nowadays. How many gay couples do you see hand in hand in Jerusalem (or any other big city, let alone small towns)? Not a whole lot, I bet.
I should point out that I think I have fallen into an equivalent trap regarding racism at times. Most people I know show no overt signs of racism, so it is not easy to be objective about how pervasive low-level racism is in the country. (None of us can be ignorant about its rarer high-level manifestations.) |
| Salopian |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 09:46:06
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
I would have hoped that it wouldn't have made any difference one way or another.
Well, I would have hoped that there wouldn't be wars and terrorism and starvation and disease and exploitation.
Oh dear, looks like hoping doesn't make a lot of difference.  |
| Salopian |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 09:43:52
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Gaahl is another singer who came out of the closet recently.
Now that's much more interesting than Ricky Martin. I've got no interest in that style of music but long hair overrules anything else.
His Wikipedia article is a bit of a mess. I'll tidy it up later if I can be bothered. |
| Salopian |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 09:21:53
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
No matter how grown up your view is ChocolateLady (whith wihich I agree) there is nothing like the power of the pin up and I'd lay a bet (which will never pay off) that his 17 million record sales in 1999 would have been curbed by his sexuality if he had chosen to come out before then?
Yep, that is definitely the case. However, two wrongs don't make a right and so that was not a good justification for him staying in the closet. There is no such thing as a right to superstardom, and he would still have been able to have some moderate success. It's much worse for sports stars. If they come out early in their careers they're fucked, so I'm not quite sure where I stand on them. |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 08:11:23
quote:
Originally posted by TitanPa
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
On yet someone else's hand, I wish he'd come out a long time ago and not distracted all of those eligible young women back then!
Exactly why would his being gay stop them? I have never stopped drooling over a good looking guy just because he was gay. And personally, I don't think there's any reason why his being gay should have any influence on his art (if one can call it that. No, I'm not a huge fan of his - never have been. I find his stuff a bit too... hectic for my taste, but that's just me). If someone is talented, they're talented no matter what their sexual preference is. If I like their work, I'll like it and that's that.
(I'll never forget my gut reaction when a friend of mine told me that a female singer I happen to like is a Lesbian. I said without even thinking "to tell you the honest truth, I really don't give a damn. I like her songs and her voice, and nothing is going to change that for me.")
Do you know what would happen if Justin Bieber came out and said that he was gay? All hell would break loose.
Seriously? The kid is probably too young to even know if he's gay or not. In a couple of years, he'll know and then it won't make a difference.
Does it make a difference today that Neil Patrick Harris is gay? No. If we had known that when he was playing Doogie Houser, would it have made him less cute? No.
And as for this article, case in point - Adam Lambert, last year's AI runner up made a splash with his kissing a guy during the performance of his song on the American Music Awards, and the hullabloo actually probably helped him, rather than hurt him - despite the cancelled appearances because of it. His record sales have totally blown last year's winner out of the water - even though his album is far more flawed musically than the very straight, married Kris Allen's, in my opinion. While Adam will always have an audience, his songs will grow old very quickly and he'll have to come up with new stuff much more often than Kris will. Kris' album is something you'll want to listen to more in the long-term and he can take his time between albums. I think this album will sell well, but more steadily than Adam's will. |
| Sean |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 05:18:49
Ricky Martin: 'I was told my career would collapse if I came out'
By Fiona Sturges
9:17 AM Wednesday Mar 31, 2010
He has sold more than 60 million records worldwide, topped the charts in 60 countries and has been named one of the most beautiful people in the world.
Now the Puerto Rican pop star Ricky Martin, best known for the 1999 single Livin' La Vida Loca, has made headlines for an entirely different reason: he has finally admitted that he is gay.
"I am proud to say that I am a fortunate homosexual man. I am very blessed to be who I am," he wrote in a lengthy open letter to fans on his website.
He explained it was the process of writing his autobiography that prompted him to make the announcement.
"Writing this account of my life, I got very close to my truth. And this is something worth celebrating... Many people told me 'Ricky it's not important', 'It's not worth it', 'All the things you've worked and everything you've built will collapse'.
"Because all this advice came from people who I love dearly, I decided to move on with my life not sharing with the world my entire truth.
Allowing myself to be seduced by fear and insecurity became a self-fulfilling prophecy of sabotage."
For the majority of pop fans and celeb-watchers, Martin's statement will hardly come as a shock.
His sexuality has been one of the worst-kept secrets in the music industry for years. But there is more to this than the simple tale of a man finally setting aside his fears and coming out of the closet.
The message that Martin's story imparts is that homosexuality is a career-killer when it comes to pop music - that it is more acceptable in the 21st century to be a drug addict like Amy Winehouse or Pete Doherty than it is to be gay.
It is worth noting that this is the record business we're talking about, an industry that in the last 50 years has stood for liberalism, equality, individualism, creativity and progression.
It is meant to be about breaking down barriers, exploding preconceptions and celebrating a person's right to express themselves in any way that they see fit. Any way, apparently, as long as it doesn't disturb the glorious idyll of the heterosexual lifestyle.
So should we be surprised?
Not according to Matthew Todd, editor of the gay lifestyle magazine Attitude.
"The record industry itself is pretty pro-gay, but the outlets that support it, particularly radio and TV, are not," he said.
"Ricky Martin's main market is America, and there the radio and TV stations wield a huge amount of power. Just look at what happened to [American Idol winner] Adam Lambert after he kissed a man on stage at the American Music Awards. He was kicked off all the TV shows he was due to appear on, and was replaced by Chris Brown, the man that famously beat up Rihanna."
Even so, the record industry has a lot to answer for in refusing to get behind gay artists. We all know that a mainstream artist's appeal can rest as much on their attractiveness as their ability to sing in tune. In the realms of chart-friendly pop, homosexuality has proved a particular thorn in the side for music executives.
Artists such as Ricky Martin are primed for their sex appeal to a generation of teenage girls - tell them their idol is gay and the myth is ruined.
That's the thinking anyway. But how does that explain the success of Rufus Wainwright, or k.d. lang, Will Young, Beth Ditto, The Pet Shop Boys, Scissor Sisters or the countless other artists who enjoy great sales and critical kudos and make no bones about being attracted to people of the same sex? That they are not all sex symbols, and therefore not tailored purely for teenagers, is without doubt their saving grace.
But the record industry has long underestimated the loyalty and intelligence of music fans by peddling manufactured artists masquerading as the real deal, or by trying to pull the wool over their eyes about their artists' lifestyle choices.
When the late Stephen Gately of Boyzone announced he was gay in 1999, fans were expected to throw their hands up in horror. In fact, they rallied round in support. The same went for Will Young, who came out to fans shortly after winning Pop Idol.
Eight years later Young has had nine top-10 singles in the UK and has been nominated for 10 Brit Awards - hardly the achievements of a man who is loathed for his lifestyle choices. More recently, when Mark Feehily from Westlife came out of the closet, few even noticed.
So does anyone care whether their icons are gay or straight? And is it any of our business anyway?
The truth is that, as consumers, we care about an artists' sexuality just as much as we care how big their house is, who they're dating and what they buy in supermarkets. In the era of celebrity magazines, we are interested in every facet of a musician's or actor's or reality star's existence. Sexuality is just a part of the picture.
Todd notes that it has become harder in recent years for gay people to keep their sexuality a secret.
"Twenty years ago, the majority of the population didn't know a gay person, or, if they did, they didn't know it," he said.
"In the case of male pop stars you had bachelors, and it was assumed they just didn't want to settle down. Nowadays we all know gay people, and it's become more difficult for pop stars to stay in the closet."
As for Martin, his career has been on a downward slide in Europe and the US for some time, a fact that has less to do with his sexuality than that his music has gone out of fashion. He has had plenty of chances to come out over the years, and has chosen not to.
The veteran interviewer Barbara Walters famously gave him a grilling about his sexuality in 2000, asking him what Gloria Estefan had meant when she told him to "enjoy your sexuality". Martin refused to be drawn. Earlier this week, Walters admitted that her line of questioning was "inappropriate".
Todd believes that Ricky Martin's decision to keep his sexuality to himself for all this time is sad, but ultimately understandable.
"There are still a huge number of gay men who are troubled about their sexuality," he said.
"There's so much homophobia out there that it's easy to feel ashamed. In the case of Ricky Martin, on the one hand his reluctance to come out doesn't send out a great message, but, on the other, if he'd come out, would he have got the breaks he had? You have to wonder: why did he take so long?"
- INDEPENDENT
By Fiona Sturges
from
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10635525&pnum=0
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| TitanPa |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 02:40:59
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
On yet someone else's hand, I wish he'd come out a long time ago and not distracted all of those eligible young women back then!
Exactly why would his being gay stop them? I have never stopped drooling over a good looking guy just because he was gay. And personally, I don't think there's any reason why his being gay should have any influence on his art (if one can call it that. No, I'm not a huge fan of his - never have been. I find his stuff a bit too... hectic for my taste, but that's just me). If someone is talented, they're talented no matter what their sexual preference is. If I like their work, I'll like it and that's that.
(I'll never forget my gut reaction when a friend of mine told me that a female singer I happen to like is a Lesbian. I said without even thinking "to tell you the honest truth, I really don't give a damn. I like her songs and her voice, and nothing is going to change that for me.")
Do you know what would happen if Justin Bieber came out and said that he was gay? All hell would break loose.
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| MguyX |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 17:18:18
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Gaahl is another singer who came out of the closet recently.
GAAHL IS GAY?!?!? No way! I don't think I can ever look at his besplattered face and spiked wrists the same way again.
(Oddly enough, Guns and Ammo has made no comment. Hmmmmm ....) |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 16:02:58
I would have hoped that it wouldn't have made any difference one way or another. I believe that art should speak to us at its core and not because of some random personality elements that the artist has or hasn't got. The thing is, he was always gay, and people bought his records because they liked his songs (and yes, also his looks), even though they didn't know they were listening to and looking at a gay guy. He sings the same songs and looks the same today, so why should this news make any difference to his fans?
But yes, I'm an optimist and an idealist, and as much as I think it shouldn't be so, you're probably right - to some extent. |
| Beanmimo |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 13:04:00
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
On yet someone else's hand, I wish he'd come out a long time ago and not distracted all of those eligible young women back then!
Exactly why would his being gay stop them? I have never stopped drooling over a good looking guy just because he was gay. And personally, I don't think there's any reason why his being gay should have any influence on his art (if one can call it that. No, I'm not a huge fan of his - never have been. I find his stuff a bit too... hectic for my taste, but that's just me). If someone is talented, they're talented no matter what their sexual preference is. If I like their work, I'll like it and that's that.
(I'll never forget my gut reaction when a friend of mine told me that a female singer I happen to like is a Lesbian. I said without even thinking "to tell you the honest truth, I really don't give a damn. I like her songs and her voice, and nothing is going to change that for me.")
No matter how grown up your view is ChocolateLady (whith wihich I agree) there is nothing like the power of the pin up and I'd lay a bet (which will never pay off) that his 17 million record sales in 1999 would have been curbed by his sexuality if he had chosen to come out before then?
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| Sean |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 12:29:30
Gaahl is another singer who came out of the closet recently. |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 10:21:10
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
On yet someone else's hand, I wish he'd come out a long time ago and not distracted all of those eligible young women back then!
Exactly why would his being gay stop them? I have never stopped drooling over a good looking guy just because he was gay. And personally, I don't think there's any reason why his being gay should have any influence on his art (if one can call it that. No, I'm not a huge fan of his - never have been. I find his stuff a bit too... hectic for my taste, but that's just me). If someone is talented, they're talented no matter what their sexual preference is. If I like their work, I'll like it and that's that.
(I'll never forget my gut reaction when a friend of mine told me that a female singer I happen to like is a Lesbian. I said without even thinking "to tell you the honest truth, I really don't give a damn. I like her songs and her voice, and nothing is going to change that for me.") |
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